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Get this lootbox out of my game, Senator Hawley?

Comments

  • HardmuscleHardmuscle
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    Loot boxes are not the real gimmick. Free To Play Advertising, that's the real gimmick. No game like this can be offered for free to anyone. No one is going to work for a company, upwards of 40 hours a week, to serve a million little brats an entirely free game. No one (no one in their right mind) is going to deliver content upgrades, artwork, programming, and support for free, no matter what rabbit hole you jump down in Wonderland, Alice.
  • KensamaofmariKensamaofmari
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    Hardmuscle wrote: »
    Loot boxes are not the real gimmick. Free To Play Advertising, that's the real gimmick. No game like this can be offered for free to anyone. No one is going to work for a company, upwards of 40 hours a week, to serve a million little brats an entirely free game. No one (no one in their right mind) is going to deliver content upgrades, artwork, programming, and support for free, no matter what rabbit hole you jump down in Wonderland, Alice.

    Capitalism Ho!
    Darkpixie99
  • Darkpixie99Darkpixie99
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    edited August 1, 2019
    Hardmuscle wrote: »
    Loot boxes are not the real gimmick. Free To Play Advertising, that's the real gimmick. No game like this can be offered for free to anyone. No one is going to work for a company, upwards of 40 hours a week, to serve a million little brats an entirely free game. No one (no one in their right mind) is going to deliver content upgrades, artwork, programming, and support for free, no matter what rabbit hole you jump down in Wonderland, Alice.

    Capitalism Ho!

    Honestly, if randomized items become even more of a commonality in Mabinogi events after that bill gets passed...
    Dungeons and shadow missions might finally be viable farming locations.
    (If AFKers like me don't keep staying lazy with events that grant free gold.)
    That is, if Nexon KR doesn't decide to re-script all the NA gachapon lottery drops, and make them bundles of randomized statless outfit boxes instead.
  • Darkpixie99Darkpixie99
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    edited August 4, 2019
    Three days later...


    Huuuuuuurm, sound familiar?
    giphy.gif
    *cough* Nexon *cough*
    *cough* Wing Orbs *cough*
  • Darkpixie99Darkpixie99
    Mabinogi Rep: 8,550
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  • KensamaofmariKensamaofmari
    Mabinogi Rep: 34,415
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    Like I said before, it won't be eliminated, but will alter to match rules, regulations, and laws. It's all an evolving world.
    Darkpixie99
  • GretaGreta
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    edited August 8, 2019
    Some good news?

  • Darkpixie99Darkpixie99
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    edited August 9, 2019
    Like I said before, it won't be eliminated, but will alter to match rules, regulations, and laws. It's all an evolving world.

    Businesses destroy a profitable monopoly? Perish the thought!

    More YongYea covering loot boxes!


  • Darkpixie99Darkpixie99
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    edited August 13, 2019
    More industry news: Self foot shooting in progress. (Bribery will definitely not sit well in court.)
  • KensamaofmariKensamaofmari
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    More industry news: Self foot shooting in progress. (Bribery will definitely not sit well in court.)

    Depends on where, when, who and how.
  • Darkpixie99Darkpixie99
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    More industry news: Self foot shooting in progress. (Bribery will definitely not sit well in court.)

    Depends on where, when, who and how.

    Uh, that would be...
    In the highest level of court, EA showing up, Nintendo explaining logistics, Microsoft trying to be smart about the laws currently in place, EA's lawyer crying/guiltily explaining kinder eggs again, and EA failing to appeal to lawyers who eat loopholes for breakfast.
    And then the bill gets moved forward into legislation.

  • KensamaofmariKensamaofmari
    Mabinogi Rep: 34,415
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    More industry news: Self foot shooting in progress. (Bribery will definitely not sit well in court.)

    Depends on where, when, who and how.

    Uh, that would be...
    In the highest level of court, EA showing up, Nintendo explaining logistics, Microsoft trying to be smart about the laws currently in place, EA's lawyer crying/guiltily explaining kinder eggs again, and EA failing to appeal to lawyers who eat loopholes for breakfast.
    And then the bill gets moved forward into legislation.

    The highest level court of one place doesn't have jurisdiction in another place. But we don't know because strategic and tactical moves by companies are not readily revealed to the public.
  • Darkpixie99Darkpixie99
    Mabinogi Rep: 8,550
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    The highest level court of one place doesn't have jurisdiction in another place. But we don't know because strategic and tactical moves by companies are not readily revealed to the public.

    Regardless, once loot boxes become an adult rated item, Imma be expecting Nexon to change the rating of everything and start selling armor in Vindictus with codpieces.
    Just imagine new husbandos in Mabinogi with that kinda armor too! Talk about profiting off an audience...
    RemorsefulGiddyJabiru-max-1mb.gif
    (Not that it would ever happen in this reality, since a general audience is double the profit and site activity, and creates the best safety netting of profit balance.)
  • KensamaofmariKensamaofmari
    Mabinogi Rep: 34,415
    Posts: 7,857
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    The highest level court of one place doesn't have jurisdiction in another place. But we don't know because strategic and tactical moves by companies are not readily revealed to the public.

    Regardless, once loot boxes become an adult rated item, Imma be expecting Nexon to change the rating of everything and start selling armor in Vindictus with codpieces.
    Just imagine new husbandos in Mabinogi with that kinda armor too! Talk about profiting off an audience...
    RemorsefulGiddyJabiru-max-1mb.gif
    (Not that it would ever happen in this reality, since a general audience is double the profit and site activity, and creates the best safety netting of profit balance.)

    This is what actually happens
    200.webp?cid=790b7611d5dad33f3355496174e403a12a18686e76cf38be&rid=200.webp
    Darkpixie99
  • Darkpixie99Darkpixie99
    Mabinogi Rep: 8,550
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    This is what actually happens
    200.webp?cid=790b7611d5dad33f3355496174e403a12a18686e76cf38be&rid=200.webp

    Wait for it....

    Now play gif on loop.
    giphy.gif

    EA is gonna be as screwed as Nexon's rate rigging fine!
    (They ain't ever living that bit of history down...)
  • Darkpixie99Darkpixie99
    Mabinogi Rep: 8,550
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    edited August 19, 2019
    https://www.ftc.gov/news-events/audio-video/video/inside-game-unlocking-consumer-issues-surrounding-loot-boxes-session-1
    https://www.ftc.gov/news-events/audio-video/video/inside-game-unlocking-consumer-issues-surrounding-loot-boxes-session-2
    (0:53/skip to 0:55 for the start of "The Kinder Egg" study)
    (1:18:16/skip to 1:29:30 is the ESRB speaks.)
    (1:34:21 Consumer Reports speaks Truth Transparency and Fairness In The Marketplace)
    -Counter Strike Global Offensive, Fire Emblem Heroes, Clash Royale name dropped and utilized on slides
    (1:39 begins the discussion of press and user spending)
    (1:43 begins the Problem Gambling's "Neutral Stance" gambling discussion)
    -Skip to 1:48:06 for the Loot Boxes= M for Mature recommendation just got served out in public
    (1:49:05)
    -States belief in third party objective regulation
    -Independent testing labs in the gambling industry
    (1:51)
    -Gambling industry tip: self exclusion (via partnerships)
    (1:53)
    -Hate our conclusion, show us your data
    -With 50 years of experience, there's cause for alarm between people who pay to play loot boxes, and those who develop problems
    -Again, show us your data
    (1:54:05)
    -"With great profits comes great responsibility."
    -Calls the industry to donate a portion of loot box profit to a public health trust fund
    (1:55)
    -Gambling industry learned that self regulation is never enough
    (1:56 Common Sense Media speaks)
    -"Spoiler alert, they don't know a lot." (Referring to parental knowledge of loot boxes and child safety.)
    (1:57:16)
    Uh oh, did we just hear that consumers have NO IDEA how much or what they're actually spending on in game currency based on that currency not being in real dollar terms? UH OH! Spaghettios!
    (1:58)
    -Companies can take advantage of this
    -Companies are filing patents to also take advantage of this

    (1:59)
    -It gets worse. Strawberry Shortcake game is guilty of emotional manipulation and baiting a child into purchasing microtransactions through the actions and emotional reactions of the NPCs.
    OH SNAP! Court is gonna eat this case UP!
    -Host is not only selling, but getting emotional if the child does not make a purchase right away
    Well that game will be dead soon, not quite certain about the others...
    (2:00:50)
    -Sounds as rewarding effects to keep users hooked (*cough* known gambling tactic *cough*)
    -Disclosures can be ineffective (Reiterating ESRB's laziness to elaborate on "in app/game purchases.")
    -TINY PRINT they hate it too!
    -Unknown linked credit card to accounts
    -No statements or vague descriptions
    -"How to? I'm lost and frustrated," parents tell us
    -Disclosures woefully inaccurate for parents
    -Need more transparency, more effort
    -Disclose commercialism, and teach children and parents to understand purchases
    -Make clearer labels on purchases
    -Even if not designed for kids, still be transparent and explanatory
    -Request for parental controls to be default settings
    -Explains global loot box odd disclosures as being so broad that it doesn't constitute a disclosure at all
    -Loot boxes are still a problem
    (2:09)
    -Google and Apple are making rate disclosure a "trend"
    Panel's reaction: Unlikely to be effective as a gambling addiction space, leads to false beliefs, should be disclosed, make such disclosures impactful in ways they understand with informed decisions, children won't make significantly better decisions with rate disclosures. They want people to buy these, but is there a way to create a way that makes people stop and think, but will that cost companies revenue? They've made a commitment to make disclosures easier to access and easier to understand, but loot boxes vary from game to game, but if there's no standard, then we'll have to let companies create disclosures on their own- but it's complicated, and parents need better parental controls to understand and control child spending. ESRB rating system needs to be really easy to understand, but they cannot throw too much information at parents or their eyes will glaze over. Parents can go to the rating summary, but they can't expect that to be on the box, or up on a mobile screen. Assumption that all gamers already understand based on the context of the game.
    (2:17)
    -Point of sale discussion begins
    -"If we're not talking to kids in schools about this- it's gotta be multi scaled."
    -We still don't know the "contains in app purchases" really means loot boxes, so it's not doing enough of the job.
    -Dynamic odds recap and discussion
    -"Why would you stop, especially if you're at risk for addiction?"
    -Persistence to win that rare item can be disastrous, can absolutely be a pathway to gambling addiction in the loot box space
    (2:21)
    "I want us to be careful how we frame the conversation, because rewards are meant to be fun and games are designed to be fun."
    -Providing an incentive on it's own isn't a bad thing
    -"What about just offering randomized loot boxes for free, available only through game play? Would that solve the problem?"
    -Psychologically, no, it wouldn't remove the risk of developing addiction and habitability.
    -It might solve some people, but not the truly at risk people. (But then he'd be out of a job.)
    (2:24)
    -The "loot boxes are free and totally optional," argument
    -Economics of the availability to purchase items from the loot boxes
    -Should there be a cap of in app purchases for children?
    (2:27)
    -ESRB is trying, they swear
    -Issue which ESRB hasn't studied (Socioeconomic status impact on utilization of parental controls)
    -"Why not define the type of purchases?"
    (2:30)
    -Parents are clicking to download and passing the mobile to their child, they might want to know more information.
    -"Need more research," "Risk isn't seen the same among users." "It may need to be tailored to specific groups, as a public health issue."
    -"The risk changes as people change and mature."
    (2:33)
    -Is self regulation or legislation required? What may cause the calculus of that to change?
    -Gambling industry partners with regulators, but thinks self regulation works fine.
    -ESRB has taken some important steps, but the industry is so board, self regulation won't solve all the problems, so there'll be a need for more than
    -ESRB brags about highest compliance with Congress. In five years they think they can do an effective job self regulating and adressing parent concerns, but it's a fast paced industry which continually adapts and evolves.
    -ESRB claims legislation could become obsolete due to fast moving industry
    -"Self regulation can't keep up with the entire industry either. Everyone has to play a role."it.
    (2:36)
    Final question:
    "If we meet again in five years, what do you think the key questions from consumers will be, related to microtransactions? Are we still going to be talking about loot boxes at all?"


    I must say, the "Don't like it don't buy it" phrase is extremely dumb, especially if you require the money of a consumer in order to function as a business.
    Oh, and btw, Nexon... I hope you're listening. Not just to the players, but to these transcripts. They be a harsh sense of reality.
    bf9cde50af31394a8ee1644561afdebf1319721341_large.jpg
  • Darkpixie99Darkpixie99
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    edited August 24, 2019
    Two weeks ago:
    Rocket League is ditching loot boxes Article
    "Rocket League will remove its paid, randomized loot crates in favor of a system that will tell players what they’re purchasing before they buy."

    Meanwhile, yesterday in the UK:
    FIFA Packs and Loot Boxes Are Considered to Be Not Gambling in the UK Article
    "The UK gambling watchdog reported to Members of Parliament about the impossibility to regulate the purchase of in-game content like video game loot boxes and Fifa player packs. The reason is simple: there is no legitimate way to monetize everything that is inside them."

    3 weeks ago recap brought to you by Inside Gaming:

    1 week ago recap brought to you by YongYea:
  • KensamaofmariKensamaofmari
    Mabinogi Rep: 34,415
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    A hurrah for Boris Johnson's govt lul
    Darkpixie99Sherri
  • Darkpixie99Darkpixie99
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    edited August 26, 2019
    *Edit*
    Belgium will discontinue Animal Crossing: Pocket Camp and Fire Emblem Heroes
    Article
    "Nintendo is pulling two of its popular mobile games in Belgium due to the nation's anti-gambling laws aimed at loot boxes. Fire Emblem Heroes and Animal Crossing: Pocket Camp will be removed from app stores on August 27th, according to an announcement on the company's website. Upon that date, neither game will be available to download or play. Players who have Orbs or Leaf Tickets can still use them until the game's removal. Due to the law, Nintendo also will not release any future games with similar earnings models in Belgium."


    More of YongYea loot box coverage:

    (Also EA proves how dumb they are about the demand of market consumerism through continual denial of the loot box problem.)