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Get this lootbox out of my game, Senator Hawley?

Comments

  • KensamaofmariKensamaofmari
    Mabinogi Rep: 34,415
    Posts: 7,857
    Member
    No matter what, the UK path will be messy.
    Darkpixie99
  • AquaEyesAquaEyes
    Mabinogi Rep: 755
    Posts: 15
    Member
    A matter of time before the entire gaming industry heads towards collapse.

    It's not just the gaming industry though. While lootbox regulation are the ones we're currently talking about, and are first and foremost use by the gaming industry, it's what starts the tides shifting for bigger areas. The internet has been a literal grey area for years--no real official regulations were put in place and held up for things like monopolies or data-mining. With the approval of an anti-lootbox act, it's a step closer to other tech areas being regulated and held to laws. It would be a step towards de-monopolizing Google (who both rules search engines and email providers), a step towards breaking down one-stop areas Amazon who have little to no other competition, a step towards breaking down Disney (who is partnered with ABC, ESPN, Marvel, Fox, and Lucasfilms-- together they make one of the largest media powerhouses producing content).

    Working towards regulating the lootboxes actively puts effort into monitoring business practices of companies that's revenue comes from the internet. Which is a step closer to enacting irl laws like the Sherman Antitrust Act and holding large internet or media-based businesses to them. A step closer to the internet being a fairer and privater place of fun/business/recreation/whatever for consumers.

    (and then mayyyybe a step closer into working on the US's current economic issues, but lets not dream too big now)

    It's not just as simple as adapt. A business will operate until profitability disappears and then they will probably exit the market and leave it to the strong and few, the 1%. Is Nexon part of that 1%? Maybe they are, maybe they aren't. Regardless, market diversity will be killed off if regulations choke off the life to most of the involved businesses so that a few will benefit.

    Now, I'm not saying regulation is not needed, it is, but depending on the exact type of regulation could be detrimental.

    Unfortunately, this is something that is already happening in so many parts of the internet. The diversity the everyday consumer has in areas like search engines, email providers, social media sites/apps has dwindled. There are a handful of names that people actively use for each of these things-- only a small few of the that handful are '1%' businesses.

    It reminds me of the Netflix/Hulu/Amazon war in its prime. We had three huge things to choose from-- they each had different, but still good, content. Most enjoyed at least one, some enjoyed all. But now, there's been a huge spike in streaming: we have areas like Crackle and SlingTV and YouTube who have been established for a few years, and then we have AppleTV and Disney+ and plenty of 'ala carte' options for certain stations. The market for streaming is bigger than ever-- but it's also more tedious than ever. No one wants to pay six different bills for the same type of content. And since these are competing businesses you can't pick and choose what you get from them. In a lot of ways, adapting to the 'streaming generation' really hurts the consumer-- because the consumer originally turned to streaming to avoid high prices, commercials, and an overload of things they didn't want to watch.

    idk in what ways barring lootboxes could/would hurt consumers- but I'm sure there is one. It's a fine line to walk between consumer happiness and ethical business practices.
    Darkpixie99
  • KensamaofmariKensamaofmari
    Mabinogi Rep: 34,415
    Posts: 7,857
    Member
    AquaEyes wrote: »
    A matter of time before the entire gaming industry heads towards collapse.

    It's not just the gaming industry though. While lootbox regulation are the ones we're currently talking about, and are first and foremost use by the gaming industry, it's what starts the tides shifting for bigger areas. The internet has been a literal grey area for years--no real official regulations were put in place and held up for things like monopolies or data-mining. With the approval of an anti-lootbox act, it's a step closer to other tech areas being regulated and held to laws. It would be a step towards de-monopolizing Google (who both rules search engines and email providers), a step towards breaking down one-stop areas Amazon who have little to no other competition, a step towards breaking down Disney (who is partnered with ABC, ESPN, Marvel, Fox, and Lucasfilms-- together they make one of the largest media powerhouses producing content).

    Working towards regulating the lootboxes actively puts effort into monitoring business practices of companies that's revenue comes from the internet. Which is a step closer to enacting irl laws like the Sherman Antitrust Act and holding large internet or media-based businesses to them. A step closer to the internet being a fairer and privater place of fun/business/recreation/whatever for consumers.

    (and then mayyyybe a step closer into working on the US's current economic issues, but lets not dream too big now)

    It's not just as simple as adapt. A business will operate until profitability disappears and then they will probably exit the market and leave it to the strong and few, the 1%. Is Nexon part of that 1%? Maybe they are, maybe they aren't. Regardless, market diversity will be killed off if regulations choke off the life to most of the involved businesses so that a few will benefit.

    Now, I'm not saying regulation is not needed, it is, but depending on the exact type of regulation could be detrimental.

    Unfortunately, this is something that is already happening in so many parts of the internet. The diversity the everyday consumer has in areas like search engines, email providers, social media sites/apps has dwindled. There are a handful of names that people actively use for each of these things-- only a small few of the that handful are '1%' businesses.

    It reminds me of the Netflix/Hulu/Amazon war in its prime. We had three huge things to choose from-- they each had different, but still good, content. Most enjoyed at least one, some enjoyed all. But now, there's been a huge spike in streaming: we have areas like Crackle and SlingTV and YouTube who have been established for a few years, and then we have AppleTV and Disney+ and plenty of 'ala carte' options for certain stations. The market for streaming is bigger than ever-- but it's also more tedious than ever. No one wants to pay six different bills for the same type of content. And since these are competing businesses you can't pick and choose what you get from them. In a lot of ways, adapting to the 'streaming generation' really hurts the consumer-- because the consumer originally turned to streaming to avoid high prices, commercials, and an overload of things they didn't want to watch.

    idk in what ways barring lootboxes could/would hurt consumers- but I'm sure there is one. It's a fine line to walk between consumer happiness and ethical business practices.

    In the end, it's those media giants who will find the loopholes in regulation and be able to dominate not only business, but even the everyday life of people.

    I just feel like the focus on regulating the gaming industry now really shows that countries' priorities are out of order.
    Darkpixie99
  • Darkpixie99Darkpixie99
    Mabinogi Rep: 8,550
    Posts: 1,703
    Member
    edited October 24, 2019
    AquaEyes wrote: »
    idk in what ways barring lootboxes could/would hurt consumers- but I'm sure there is one. It's a fine line to walk between consumer happiness and ethical business practices.

    The only way consumers might be impacted, is if a company steps on a Loot Box mine so bad, that they're no longer able to maintain the game's servers without it.
    Nexon KR has a bundle of partners and side companies of it's own, so they will be fine in the long run.
    The financial loss of a Loot Box ban in the UK would likely only effect the consumers who wish to support the game through the only (NX) method of item purchases: gachapons.


    In the end, it's those media giants who will find the loopholes in regulation and be able to dominate not only business, but even the everyday life of people.
    I just feel like the focus on regulating the gaming industry now really shows that countries' priorities are out of order.

    I hate to tell you this, but trying to go for a loophole after all eyes are already locked onto the industry will be extremely tough to pull off.
    (If Nexon even listens to thier lawyer.)
    The likelihood of getting caught is very easy, through consumers reporting companies and practices to regulators like the FTC or the BBB.

  • KensamaofmariKensamaofmari
    Mabinogi Rep: 34,415
    Posts: 7,857
    Member
    AquaEyes wrote: »
    idk in what ways barring lootboxes could/would hurt consumers- but I'm sure there is one. It's a fine line to walk between consumer happiness and ethical business practices.

    The only way consumers might be impacted, is if a company steps on a Loot Box mine so bad, that they're no longer able to maintain the game's servers without it.
    Nexon KR has a bundle of partners and side companies of it's own, so they will be fine in the long run.
    The financial loss of a Loot Box ban in the UK would likely only effect the consumers who wish to support the game through the only (NX) method of item purchases: gachapons.


    In the end, it's those media giants who will find the loopholes in regulation and be able to dominate not only business, but even the everyday life of people.
    I just feel like the focus on regulating the gaming industry now really shows that countries' priorities are out of order.

    I hate to tell you this, but trying to go for a loophole after all eyes are already locked onto the industry will be extremely tough to pull off.
    (If Nexon even listens to thier lawyer.)
    The likelihood of getting caught is very easy, through consumers reporting companies and practices to regulators like the FTC or the BBB.

    There is always a way, it's how top businesses have always operated.
    Darkpixie99
  • KensamaofmariKensamaofmari
    Mabinogi Rep: 34,415
    Posts: 7,857
    Member
    There is always a way, it's how top businesses have always operated.
    Gaia Online has been advertising more item bundle sales.
    I'd have to say that bundling virtual items (like how Shopping Bags are sold) is something a lot of users have been begging Nexon to do for years.
    There was also this thread for how to best sell Homestead Seeds on the Cash Shop, but Mabinogi is a 15 year old game.
    The KR developers are always busy coding the core data for the game, so they probably won't get around to remodeling anything any time soon.
    (This is where they get so much criticism, for not training other branches on how to manage the Cash Shop for other countries.)
    Not to mention they literally got the Ego Update finished months ago, and Thanksgiving/Christmas vacation are right around the corner.

    I believe Nexon does bundling already with its mobile games. I just see them trying to milk this form of gacha dry until there's no more.
    Darkpixie99
  • Darkpixie99Darkpixie99
    Mabinogi Rep: 8,550
    Posts: 1,703
    Member
    There is always a way, it's how top businesses have always operated.
    Gaia Online has been advertising more item bundle sales.
    I'd have to say that bundling virtual items (like how Shopping Bags are sold) is something a lot of users have been begging Nexon to do for years.
    There was also this thread for how to best sell Homestead Seeds on the Cash Shop, but Mabinogi is a 15 year old game.
    The KR developers are always busy coding the core data for the game, so they probably won't get around to remodeling anything any time soon.
    (This is where they get so much criticism, for not training other branches on how to manage the Cash Shop for other countries.)
    Not to mention they literally got the Ego Update finished months ago, and Thanksgiving/Christmas vacation are right around the corner.

  • Darkpixie99Darkpixie99
    Mabinogi Rep: 8,550
    Posts: 1,703
    Member
    edited October 24, 2019
    I believe Nexon does bundling already with its mobile games. I just see them trying to milk this form of gacha dry until there's no more.

    I believe KR regulates games and accounts based off of social security number, a cyber security risk that no other country would like to take.
    The easiest route for NA would be to utilize account information (age) and IP to determine casino regulations, and that the Cash Shop would not display gachapons for children. (And automatically not shown for anyone in Hawaii.)
    Then again, because everything within gachapons have status effects, Nexon could still be served with a take down notice in both UK and US.
    I don't believe Nexon choosing to milk Mabinogi until the death of gachapons would make the KR fans happy if they found out about the situation.

    If anything, Nexon is doomed either way this legislation goes.
    Worst Possibilities:
    A- Lose the fans ("We cannot purchase anything anyways, so who cares?")
    B- Lose the kids (And parent's wallet.)
    C- Lose gachapons (And possibly A, if you're that unprepared.)

    It would have been so much easier if Mabinogi has been modeled with the MS2 model of direct purchase of standalone items.
    Instead, Nexon did this to itself- they never changed, developers never listened, and we've been saying this for years...
    Nexon has to change and/or get rid of the Cash Shop's gachapon model.
    Legislation is coming across the globe, and there's nothing anyone can do about it.

  • KensamaofmariKensamaofmari
    Mabinogi Rep: 34,415
    Posts: 7,857
    Member
    I believe Nexon does bundling already with its mobile games. I just see them trying to milk this form of gacha dry until there's no more.

    I believe KR regulates games and accounts based off of social security number, a cyber security risk that no other country would like to take.
    The easiest route for NA would be to utilize account information (age) and IP to determine casino regulations, and that the Cash Shop would not display gachapons for children. (And automatically not shown for anyone in Hawaii.)
    Then again, because everything within gachapons have status effects, Nexon could still be served with a take down notice in both UK and US.
    I don't believe Nexon choosing to milk Mabinogi until the death of gachapons would make the KR fans happy if they found out about the situation.

    If anything, Nexon is doomed either way this legislation goes.
    Worst Possibilities:
    A- Lose the fans ("We cannot purchase anything anyways, so who cares?")
    B- Lose the kids (And parent's wallet.)
    C- Lose gachapons (And possibly A, if you're that unprepared.)

    It would have been so much easier if Mabinogi has been modeled with the MS2 model of direct purchase of standalone items.
    Instead, Nexon did this to itself- they never changed, developers never listened, and we've been saying this for years...
    Nexon has to change and/or get rid of the Cash Shop's gachapon model.
    Legislation is coming across the globe, and there's nothing anyone can do about it.

    They'll get rid of it when it's time to get rid of it. And their insiders, boards of directors would know the best and a fairly competent CEO. No need to promote such speculations on what they need to do or not.
    Darkpixie99
  • Darkpixie99Darkpixie99
    Mabinogi Rep: 8,550
    Posts: 1,703
    Member
    edited October 24, 2019
    They'll get rid of it when it's time to get rid of it. And their insiders, boards of directors would know the best and a fairly competent CEO. No need to promote such speculations on what they need to do or not.

    Eh, I prefer it when things get done faster, and with more warning. Take Netmarble for example.
    I think the last time Netmarble was made aware of Loot Boxes, was when MFF players made a huge outcry to lower the App Store rating over the P2W Loot Box change. (They removed it as quickly as they possibly could.)
    I believe they've also tried to lower the grind a bit on Marvel Future Fight in the most recent patch.

    Nexon is a hierarchy of subcontractors, and subcontractors could potentially list this thread's speculation as mere FUD, and never forward the key information.
    (Senate Bill s.1629 is behind red tape in a "for the children" era, UK Commissioner wants your gachapons banned.)
    But then once legislation hits, Nexon NA could (hypothetically) come the realization that someone's not doing their job of alerting the KR staff ahead of time, so that changes to the Cash Shop could have been made right away.
    As far as the discord users state, the Belguim Cash Shop has everything current but the gachapons.
    (The one and only big money maker to Nexon.)
    No outfits, no HS stuff, nothing fun but pet cards.
    So, as Belgium continues to lose Nexon money, they will no doubt continue to ignore Belgium's user demands of standalone item sales.
    (Or non-randomized bundles.)

    I really wish the KR devs had the time to release a public statement or interview on the Loot Box topic, but they've been just too busy with updating Mabinogi. (Talks of balance, and Mabinogi is 15 years old.)
    For now, I say batten the hatches, and continue to watch the FTC.
    Make sure to pray for little Belgium, and may there someday be a Mabinogi merch store to make up for all of this.

    giphy.gif

  • KensamaofmariKensamaofmari
    Mabinogi Rep: 34,415
    Posts: 7,857
    Member


    giphy.gif

    Basks in 95 degree weather at the end of October
    Darkpixie99Wolfsinger
  • Darkpixie99Darkpixie99
    Mabinogi Rep: 8,550
    Posts: 1,703
    Member
    edited October 25, 2019
    Oh, so I totally didn't see this until my very late email arrived.

    OCT 14, 2019
    ANNOUNCEMENTS
    MS2 Red Merit News

    "Global MapleStory 2 will continue to omit any and all items that directly affect player progression speed, and will continue to only sell cosmetic items."
    Okay, so the Senate bill news did hit the KR devs. Okay. Progress Nexon, progress.

    giphy.gif
    Wolfsinger
  • KensamaofmariKensamaofmari
    Mabinogi Rep: 34,415
    Posts: 7,857
    Member
    Eh, they probably have everything prepared without ye saying. But at least you get the feeling of pride that it appears they're listening to ya.
    maybe they are really listening, forum walls are wiretapped

    734c3036348dc07732c5fcfaafbc90db.jpg

    How times have changed.
  • KensamaofmariKensamaofmari
    Mabinogi Rep: 34,415
    Posts: 7,857
    Member
    Oh, so I totally didn't see this until my very late email arrived.

    MS2 Red Merit News

    "Global MapleStory 2 will continue to omit any and all items that directly affect player progression speed, and will continue to only sell cosmetic items."
    Okay, so the Senate bill news did hit the KR devs. Okay. Progress Nexon, progress.

    giphy.gif

    Eh, they probably have everything prepared without ye saying. But at least you get the feeling of pride that it appears they're listening to ya.
    maybe they are really listening, forum walls are wiretapped
    Darkpixie99Wolfsinger
  • Darkpixie99Darkpixie99
    Mabinogi Rep: 8,550
    Posts: 1,703
    Member
    Eh, they probably have everything prepared without ye saying. But at least you get the feeling of pride that it appears they're listening to ya.
    maybe they are really listening, forum walls are wiretapped

    734c3036348dc07732c5fcfaafbc90db.jpg

    Kensamaofmari
  • WolfsingerWolfsinger
    Mabinogi Rep: 5,555
    Posts: 1,327
    Member
    The fact that I see Ken's quote/reply to your post BEFORE I see your post Dark.....
    Forums are so broken for me XD
  • SherriSherri
    Mabinogi Rep: 17,920
    Posts: 2,666
    Member
    Wolfsinger wrote: »
    The fact that I see Ken's quote/reply to your post BEFORE I see your post Dark.....
    Forums are so broken for me XD

    I think they're broken for everyone lol
    rip forums oof
    Darkpixie99Wolfsinger
  • KensamaofmariKensamaofmari
    Mabinogi Rep: 34,415
    Posts: 7,857
    Member
    Wolfsinger wrote: »
    The fact that I see Ken's quote/reply to your post BEFORE I see your post Dark.....
    Forums are so broken for me XD

    THIS IS MABINOGI!
    Wolfsinger
  • WolfsingerWolfsinger
    Mabinogi Rep: 5,555
    Posts: 1,327
    Member
    Wolfsinger wrote: »
    The fact that I see Ken's quote/reply to your post BEFORE I see your post Dark.....
    Forums are so broken for me XD

    THIS IS MABINOGI!

    The dumpster fire we know and love
    Darkpixie99Kensamaofmari
  • PlatinaKokiPlatinaKoki
    Mabinogi Rep: 7,645
    Posts: 939
    Member
    I believe Nexon does bundling already with its mobile games. I just see them trying to milk this form of gacha dry until there's no more.

    I believe KR regulates games and accounts based off of social security number, a cyber security risk that no other country would like to take.
    The easiest route for NA would be to utilize account information (age) and IP to determine casino regulations, and that the Cash Shop would not display gachapons for children. (And automatically not shown for anyone in Hawaii.)
    Then again, because everything within gachapons have status effects, Nexon could still be served with a take down notice in both UK and US.
    I don't believe Nexon choosing to milk Mabinogi until the death of gachapons would make the KR fans happy if they found out about the situation.

    If anything, Nexon is doomed either way this legislation goes.
    Worst Possibilities:
    A- Lose the fans ("We cannot purchase anything anyways, so who cares?")
    B- Lose the kids (And parent's wallet.)
    C- Lose gachapons (And possibly A, if you're that unprepared.)

    It would have been so much easier if Mabinogi has been modeled with the MS2 model of direct purchase of standalone items.
    Instead, Nexon did this to itself- they never changed, developers never listened, and we've been saying this for years...
    Nexon has to change and/or get rid of the Cash Shop's gachapon model.
    Legislation is coming across the globe, and there's nothing anyone can do about it.

    And all three of those possibilities are good for us, the players.

    ....Never thought I'd be supporting Republican-led legislation, especially in a time with this much polarization in politics.
    Darkpixie99