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Multi-clienters ruining/abusing events

Comments

  • GretaGreta
    Mabinogi Rep: 51,805
    Posts: 6,975
    Member
    edited April 2, 2018
    Arjune wrote: »
    I don't usually go on other channels so yeah they're probably just on other channels. I just don't want everything to become untradable because I already can't stand it when I have items that can't go in the dressing room... ugh...

    I find timed items to be more annoying to be honest. Those got pretty common lately.
    TwelieSaiSherriYangKoete
  • WolfandWolfWolfandWolf
    Mabinogi Rep: 5,900
    Posts: 786
    Member
    edited April 2, 2018
    Arjune wrote: »
    Nothing should be untradable, that's just stupid. the dressing room (and usually pets) don't allow untradable things to go into it. You think people want to fill their luxury bags / bank with untradable stuff?? and what if the event is their big chance to make a lot of gold to buy stuff they DO want?? They can't let abusers get way with ruining everything else for others. they need to find other ways to stop them. I already have a pair of white dominion wings from an old contest Sabina did that I can only keep in my bank. I'd prefer not to be stuck with 563767567 untradable items

    This Festia thing is the only type of event I've heard of alts really abusing, though I heard Alexina has people abusing hot times really bad too. Don't punish all severs for Alexina's crimes. Hell I bet Conflict was nerfed because of Alexina too. I never see multi-client alts in Mari, and the one time I did it was a bunch of players in penguin robes just being funny... no abusable event was going at the time. Just someone having a joke

    We don't have to make EVERY event item untradeable. But at the very least, since multiclienters love spamming instant events and their prizes are limited, we can make the top prizes for this event untradeable.

    And I'm sure there must be a way to change the code to make it so untradeable items can be put into the dressing room. Wouldn't it be nice to put your Dominion Wings into the dressing room? :) More bank space~

    I understand your concern. I myself sell event items I don't particularly like, and I did come back after years of not playing and bought a few event items from others that I liked but missed out on. But an event like this that's so dependent on how much of the population is spamming the roulette button...? It is a pretty viable solution in this case. It doesn't have to be for every event. But instant event server population roulettes are the most pressing in need of a change.
    Sherri
  • GembiGembi
    Mabinogi Rep: 635
    Posts: 15
    Member
    Gaby5011 wrote: »
    Simple solution, make event items untradable. I really wouldn't mind actually.

    I completely agree. At least most items that would get rigged in the market. Some fashionable thing could be trade-able, because the more there is, the less valuable it becomes.
  • BuffalosBuffalos
    Mabinogi Rep: 9,795
    Posts: 797
    Member
    Shoog wrote: »
    The conflict or other missions spamming was almost a daily common sighting at some point with certain players having 3 or 4 alts with almost identical names following them into shadow missions. Not sure if that still occurs though since I've been super lazy with running missions in the past 6 months.
    Know a few people who loved to brag about doing that and if they still play that they are almost certainly doing this still. If you need a general clue on -that- sort of activity, just look at the guild stones near the shadow altars: brand new guilds with ~<10 members that are within rendering view of the Stonehenge and don't gain more members over time tend to be bot guilds.


    YangKoete
  • CarlizeCarlize
    Mabinogi Rep: 2,840
    Posts: 190
    Member
    While I don't like multiclienters abusing events, I think the bigger picture should be looked at. Having multiple accounts is not against the terms of service, if I'm wrong please direct me to where it says they are because I looked through it thoroughly. But using 3rd party programs and mods are. I think there's a huge difference between doing an event on multiple accounts and putting in actual effort to get more chances at getting the items, and multiclienting or macroing like 8 accounts at a time just to afk them. I think the problem comes down to how Nexon creates the events in the first place. First, we have normal afk events. But then multiclienters abuse it, so now we have ones where we have to click a button every hour/15 minutes/whatnot. It's similar with the login events, people abused it so they made a 36 minute wait period. The issue is this isn't affecting the people who are the serious problem. Now the "normal" player who doesn't have any third party programs has to be attentive and clicking regularly, while the person who was already multiclienting will just macro whatever they need and do it just as easily. Even with this recent Festia event, within 5 minutes of the server going up (which was ~40 minutes before schedule to boot) there were already alt armies on and doing the event. That isn't humanly possible. If they want people to stop abusing the events they'd need to have harsher punishments when they're obviously modding or using third parties like this.

    But that's not the only issue with how Nexon plans their events. We have items like the NPC figure box and the Kindergarden Squire trans medals. where you can only get 1/6-7 potential items for logging in. So if you want to collect them or get a particular one, it's still going to cost you despite being a login event item. This even bleeds over to the event gacha's RNG. I don't know if they assume everyone plays on like 20+ characters or if there's just no rebalancing from KR's population to NA's, but the odds for nearly every event item in the last couple years has been absolutely atrocious. On Ruairi there are a couple items, such as Blue Cutiefly wings from Mabi's 8th anniversary and the green Glow-in-the-Dark Bracelet from MusicQ, that have zero stars because they never even made it into the dressing room. The fact that event items come out and are so rare that they never make it into the server just makes no sense to me. Why go through the effort and then have your playerbase unable to even enjoy it?

    This goes for both event gacha and prizes you buy with earned coins. Because Mabi limits the amount you can earn on one character, you're often forced to choose which prize you want the most, and then you have to either purchase the other items from other players or use alt accounts to get them. So even more so than trying to regulate modders and multiclienters, I think they need to look at how lazy their forms of events have gotten. Most are usually to just stand around and afk or fish or something similar to that. Off of the top of my head, I can only think of 5 events where you could spam the entirety of it on one character and be guaranteed all the rewards: Samhain Event, Star Piece Event, Maple Leaf Event, Dragon Boat Event, and Meowbinogi. For the most part all of these events are met with fewer complaints and I usually notice a temporary boom in active population with events like these. So I'd say it's more events like these we need and not afk/semi-afk events. I think for a majority of people, they don't want to be on alts majority of the time, they want to play their main character that they worked hard on. It's Mabi's event design that isn't allowing that to happen. So while I don't like how abused the events are by multi clienting, I dislike even more so how Nexon has made their events this exploitable to begin with.
    ArjuneBuffalosDaktaroVaughanVeylaineTwelieWolfandWolfRadiant DawnMeyMirralChanand 12 others.
  • OpalthiraOpalthira
    Mabinogi Rep: 7,595
    Posts: 943
    Member
    Arjune wrote: »
    Nothing should be untradable, that's just stupid. the dressing room (and usually pets) don't allow untradable things to go into it. You think people want to fill their luxury bags / bank with untradable stuff?? and what if the event is their big chance to make a lot of gold to buy stuff they DO want?? They can't let abusers get way with ruining everything else for others. they need to find other ways to stop them. I already have a pair of white dominion wings from an old contest Sabina did that I can only keep in my bank. I'd prefer not to be stuck with 563767567 untradable items

    This Festia thing is the only type of event I've heard of alts really abusing, though I heard Alexina has people abusing hot times really bad too. Don't punish all severs for Alexina's crimes. Hell I bet Conflict was nerfed because of Alexina too. I never see multi-client alts in Mari, and the one time I did it was a bunch of players in penguin robes just being funny... no abusable event was going at the time. Just someone having a joke

    The problem is you never even had a remote chance at the items to begin with because these people were logged in the moment the servers went up and bought all the prizes in 5 minutes which is about the time it would take someone to log into the game. They already ruined the event so doing nothing doesn't help.

    I don't see people complaining about having to use trading pots to store their main gear in pets or the dressing room.
    These wings are no different they give stats that usually require ENTIRE armour sets just to get and are worth millions because of it.

    If you have any other idea besides making things untradeable that doesn't involve nerfing the hell out of new players or being generally unfair i"m all ears go ahead and tell me. But don't think i'm not gonna come up with ways to exploit it, just like all the people already exploiting it will know how to do also.
    Because like i said and will say a million times before. These are actual players regardless of their level they will find a way around your plans.
    Making things untradeable makes it impossible for them to gain anything from this event.

    Lets hear your ideas.
    GretaBuffalos
  • ArjuneArjune
    Mabinogi Rep: 16,890
    Posts: 1,752
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    edited April 3, 2018
    wrote:
    The problem is you never even had a remote chance at the items to begin with because these people were logged in the moment the servers went up and bought all the prizes in 5 minutes which is about the time it would take someone to log into the game. They already ruined the event so doing nothing doesn't help.

    again you're talking about only this specific event and then saying "make everything untradable"

    Now if you say to just make rewards from this type of event untradable then fine. I don't care.... but EVERY EVENT? NO plis :P

    Take the other half of this current event for example... I have 0 luck getting the royal rose dress and I had to buy the gloves and wig. If they were all untradable I'd have no chance of getting the dress even buying from other players. then anyone who got it and didn't want it or happened to get extras would be royally SOL
    WolfandWolfOpalthiraTwelieSherri
  • KouyioueKouyioue
    Mabinogi Rep: 4,030
    Posts: 443
    Member
    edited April 3, 2018
    There's nothing stopping you from just creating an ingame coalition to make life hard for these people, it IS an MMO after all :)
  • BuffalosBuffalos
    Mabinogi Rep: 9,795
    Posts: 797
    Member
    Kouyioue wrote: »
    There's nothing stopping you from just creating an ingame coalition to make life hard for these people, it IS an MMO after all :)
    The player base shouldn't be responsible for culling or deterring cheaters in an MMO. Plain and simple.
    There's not much we could even do to stop it being profitable for them. People can make cute promises of "I won't buy from those guys ever :)", but there'll always be plenty of others who will willingly give large sums of gold for the items these people generate simply because no one else has gotten the item in question due to skewed draw rates. People can lure monsters over to the bot armies to kill them, but it'll work for all of twenty seconds until the botters learn to click a single revive button and play dead for a minute after to drop aggro.
    The player can't stop this effectively: the host company is the only one that can.
  • OpalthiraOpalthira
    Mabinogi Rep: 7,595
    Posts: 943
    Member
    Arjune wrote: »
    wrote:
    The problem is you never even had a remote chance at the items to begin with because these people were logged in the moment the servers went up and bought all the prizes in 5 minutes which is about the time it would take someone to log into the game. They already ruined the event so doing nothing doesn't help.

    again you're talking about only this specific event and then saying "make everything untradable"

    Now if you say to just make rewards from this type of event untradable then fine. I don't care.... but EVERY EVENT? NO plis :P

    Take the other half of this current event for example... I have 0 luck getting the royal rose dress and I had to buy the gloves and wig. If they were all untradable I'd have no chance of getting the dress even buying from other players. then anyone who got it and didn't want it or happened to get extras would be royally SOL

    Yes the rewards for the Festia Instant Coin Prize event are the ones that should be untradeable.
    Simply because of the rewards themselves are usually items that sell for 50+mil and people will exploit them as hard as possible.
    The other part of this event are fine however since you have fight rng just to get the items themselves and they are not limited items per server. It would only be fair that you can buy them from others due to them not being limited by an item count but by your luck.

    Events like the Instant coin prize if they plan to keep making them need to have the top three prizes untradeable.
    Otherwise people are just gonna keep mass alt farming it before anyone else can even have a chance at items.
    Which is highly unfair to the entire community as a whole.
    GretaWolfandWolfSherri
  • WolfandWolfWolfandWolf
    Mabinogi Rep: 5,900
    Posts: 786
    Member
    Opalthira wrote: »
    Arjune wrote: »
    wrote:
    The problem is you never even had a remote chance at the items to begin with because these people were logged in the moment the servers went up and bought all the prizes in 5 minutes which is about the time it would take someone to log into the game. They already ruined the event so doing nothing doesn't help.

    again you're talking about only this specific event and then saying "make everything untradable"

    Now if you say to just make rewards from this type of event untradable then fine. I don't care.... but EVERY EVENT? NO plis :P

    Take the other half of this current event for example... I have 0 luck getting the royal rose dress and I had to buy the gloves and wig. If they were all untradable I'd have no chance of getting the dress even buying from other players. then anyone who got it and didn't want it or happened to get extras would be royally SOL

    Yes the rewards for the Festia Instant Coin Prize event are the ones that should be untradeable.
    Simply because of the rewards themselves are usually items that sell for 50+mil and people will exploit them as hard as possible.
    The other part of this event are fine however since you have fight rng just to get the items themselves and they are not limited items per server. It would only be fair that you can buy them from others due to them not being limited by an item count but by your luck.

    Events like the Instant coin prize if they plan to keep making them need to have the top three prizes untradeable.
    Otherwise people are just gonna keep mass alt farming it before anyone else can even have a chance at items.
    Which is highly unfair to the entire community as a whole.

    I agree wholeheartedly. We don't need to have tradeable Festia Wings or plat hammers. Maybe change the code in the dressing room to make them storable but otherwise make it impossible to sell. If you want the wings, you have to be prepared to keep them. And people might say "but what about those of us who don't want the wings?" Maybe have an option in the instant coin machine that exempts you from getting the top prizes. That could be an easy solution.
  • OdinwolfeOdinwolfe
    Mabinogi Rep: 1,900
    Posts: 103
    Member
    How about making them less rare?

    More people get em, the value drops, and participation is rewarded instead of rewarded once in a blue moon.

    Someone I know used 12 alts fishing constantly and only got ONE black bag!

    Make the good rewards obtainable, rather than obscure.

    Players who are active and constantly dedicating their time to the events should be REWARDED!
    SherriYangKoete
  • FroglordFroglord
    Mabinogi Rep: 7,020
    Posts: 337
    Member
    edited April 3, 2018
    Odinwolfe wrote: »
    How about making them less rare?

    More people get em, the value drops, and participation is rewarded instead of rewarded once in a blue moon.

    Someone I know used 12 alts fishing constantly and only got ONE black bag!

    Make the good rewards obtainable, rather than obscure.

    Players who are active and constantly dedicating their time to the events should be REWARDED!

    That'll just make things worse in the long run, instead of a crowd of people abusing hundreds of alts to get the primary prize of an event, now they get to get like a thousand of those rare wings that will inflate in price, and will become a meta equip that people will NEED, and gladly pay 10 to 50 mil for. People who end up missing events will become a steady meal ticket for multi clienters who farm the daylights out of limited items.
  • OdinwolfeOdinwolfe
    Mabinogi Rep: 1,900
    Posts: 103
    Member
    Froglord wrote: »
    Odinwolfe wrote: »
    How about making them less rare?

    More people get em, the value drops, and participation is rewarded instead of rewarded once in a blue moon.

    Someone I know used 12 alts fishing constantly and only got ONE black bag!

    Make the good rewards obtainable, rather than obscure.

    Players who are active and constantly dedicating their time to the events should be REWARDED!

    That'll just make things worse in the long run, instead of a crowd of people abusing hundreds of alts to get the primary prize of an event, now they get to get like a thousand of those rare wings that will inflate in price, and will become a meta equip that people will NEED, and gladly pay 10 to 50 mil for. People who end up missing events will become a steady meal ticket for multi clienters who farm the daylights out of limited items.

    So it's better to just have the elitist multi-clienters to have em instead?
  • asnscorpioasnscorpio
    Mabinogi Rep: 2,500
    Posts: 394
    Member
    Or just after so many log-in or fishing said requirements...a one time item that is account bound. Most ppl wouldn't mind having a black bag space...and those who don't need it could just not do the event.

    -shrugs- Either way you can't stop what Nexon NA allows people to do for all these years. I mean there's still quite a bit of harassment still going on. Atop that the last time people tried to let NA know about the malicious players...there was nothing done so other players took it into their own hands with the programs those malicious ppl used and used it against them since it was pretty bad....Lets just say it didn't end well and those malicious ppl are still up and about with a slap on the wrist. The players who were trying to help got perma banned.
  • RheyRhey
    Mabinogi Rep: 10,175
    Posts: 1,499
    Member
    I'd say make event give out spin coins for activities such as cave of trial. And make each spin at least 5:1 ratio or 10:1 if there is a lot of coins given out.
  • SherriSherri
    Mabinogi Rep: 18,615
    Posts: 2,817
    Member
    Carlize wrote: »
    While I don't like multiclienters abusing events, I think the bigger picture should be looked at. Having multiple accounts is not against the terms of service, if I'm wrong please direct me to where it says they are because I looked through it thoroughly. But using 3rd party programs and mods are. I think there's a huge difference between doing an event on multiple accounts and putting in actual effort to get more chances at getting the items, and multiclienting or macroing like 8 accounts at a time just to afk them. I think the problem comes down to how Nexon creates the events in the first place. First, we have normal afk events. But then multiclienters abuse it, so now we have ones where we have to click a button every hour/15 minutes/whatnot. It's similar with the login events, people abused it so they made a 36 minute wait period. The issue is this isn't affecting the people who are the serious problem. Now the "normal" player who doesn't have any third party programs has to be attentive and clicking regularly, while the person who was already multiclienting will just macro whatever they need and do it just as easily. Even with this recent Festia event, within 5 minutes of the server going up (which was ~40 minutes before schedule to boot) there were already alt armies on and doing the event. That isn't humanly possible. If they want people to stop abusing the events they'd need to have harsher punishments when they're obviously modding or using third parties like this.

    But that's not the only issue with how Nexon plans their events. We have items like the NPC figure box and the Kindergarden Squire trans medals. where you can only get 1/6-7 potential items for logging in. So if you want to collect them or get a particular one, it's still going to cost you despite being a login event item. This even bleeds over to the event gacha's RNG. I don't know if they assume everyone plays on like 20+ characters or if there's just no rebalancing from KR's population to NA's, but the odds for nearly every event item in the last couple years has been absolutely atrocious. On Ruairi there are a couple items, such as Blue Cutiefly wings from Mabi's 8th anniversary and the green Glow-in-the-Dark Bracelet from MusicQ, that have zero stars because they never even made it into the dressing room. The fact that event items come out and are so rare that they never make it into the server just makes no sense to me. Why go through the effort and then have your playerbase unable to even enjoy it?

    This goes for both event gacha and prizes you buy with earned coins. Because Mabi limits the amount you can earn on one character, you're often forced to choose which prize you want the most, and then you have to either purchase the other items from other players or use alt accounts to get them. So even more so than trying to regulate modders and multiclienters, I think they need to look at how lazy their forms of events have gotten. Most are usually to just stand around and afk or fish or something similar to that. Off of the top of my head, I can only think of 5 events where you could spam the entirety of it on one character and be guaranteed all the rewards: Samhain Event, Star Piece Event, Maple Leaf Event, Dragon Boat Event, and Meowbinogi. For the most part all of these events are met with fewer complaints and I usually notice a temporary boom in active population with events like these. So I'd say it's more events like these we need and not afk/semi-afk events. I think for a majority of people, they don't want to be on alts majority of the time, they want to play their main character that they worked hard on. It's Mabi's event design that isn't allowing that to happen. So while I don't like how abused the events are by multi clienting, I dislike even more so how Nexon has made their events this exploitable to begin with.

    This right here for sure. Mabinogi's events have been getting more RNG-fest for a long time. I'm beginning to see why people tend to use alts and now I even feel bad for most of them.
  • TairikuTairiku
    Mabinogi Rep: 1,910
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    As long as there are AFK events there will be AFKing alts to milk them
  • FroglordFroglord
    Mabinogi Rep: 7,020
    Posts: 337
    Member
    I get people are desperate for good things because the RNG sucks, but making 200 alternate accounts to suck up every last prize is a whole other story. That just drives it to become virtually impossible to get anything from these events at all while a cheater is dancing around with 3 of every wing, 5 celtic chain blades, hundreds of premium consumables, and etc.

    It's just wrong, and it needs to stop.
    SherriZeo
  • XiokunXiokun
    Mabinogi Rep: 11,100
    Posts: 887
    Member
    Pan wrote: »
    Account creation should require SSN.

    A social security number for making an account for a game? Please tell me you're being sarcastic... because if someone gets hacked and gets their hands on THAT, oof!!
    VeylaineErorservYangKoeteKakiPi